Difference between revisions of "Talk:TXMT/MaterialTypes"

Revision as of 19:25, 24 December 2006

[under construction/ work in progress/ still underdevelopped]

News:

• The Material Types will be listed twice, alphabetical and categorised (maybe seperated on 2 pages).
• The categorised list will use hierarchial branching.
• To every Material Type a short quickinfo ("x" - submaterial of "y", - for "function z"/ outdated/ stand alone] will be added to the alphabetical list.
• Because of the hierarchial branching only group-headlines and quickinfos about outdated material typesd should be required for the categorised list.
• "Found in "cMaterialDefinition" in Content." will be added on top of the Material Types - page(s).

niol people may seek for material types to see if certain types of materials are used in certain game feature such as mirrors, terrains, etc... So, keeping the data viewable from as many ways as they can be can fulfill as many audience it can be. ... material parameters <-> graphical features <-> material types <-> material parameters ... We may tell what are known to work or not to work probably with known cases and/or sampler files. Let the users to explore what haven't been tried... That's why I like a table - fast and complete.

Khaibit Alphabecial order of Material types listed by functions makes sense, doesn't it? ;) :p If both lists will be listed on the main page of this "Talk" they should have to be well seperated and the difference should be easy to notice but why not? Makes sense. So far I'm just still surprised how many different material types exist (I still couldn't find Phong textures in packages yet, argh!) and I guess the list makes the beginner-average user (who never saw several material types appearing during his/hers modding) feel confused and helpless so either/and an additional info already on this page in which kind of packages (like "For clothing", wall, object, pool tile, etc., additions if needed) the material type appears or/and grouping them by functions which are listed like little headlines and then the material types are listed for this function.As this will cause the one or other double listing an additional alphabetical list would make sense, I guess :D Clear how I mean it?

As is it looks like the listing now it's more like "It will take ages until I find what I'm looking for because now I'm confused and realised that I don't know what I'm looking for" for every kind of user who doesn't already know perfectly how to use the TXMT stuff. Does this comment help you for your grouping thinking? =)

niol Lol... no worry... For most average content-makers, most of these material types won't be of any use even if they do know them... So, I don't see any problem... Just learn what they ever need. And learning all is unnecessary and inefficient. As you might have got some insights by reading some of their names, some are related to some in-game global material settings or not used in the fields of custom contents. And even "wallpaper" is not normally used in the game, but instead, "wallpaperBump" is more likely used. The latter has basically the bump-map feature more than the former. So, the two are more or less the same when bump-map is not used. Grouping will help learners to gain insights of what certain materials are defaultly used, yet unnecessarily the only way(s) to use. Yeah, niol is crazy. If you check out the special recolours I've shown in my dls, you'll see my point about this. This's not about whether it's right to use a particular material type but about whether a particular known material type can do a job!

After all, we'll make some tutorials or simple notes on the commonly used or needed for average users. Those highly specific ones can be discussed per request or need/demand. I doubt most average content makers need even know about some primitive material types at all until they wanna or need to mod the game in a more sophisticated way.

Honestly, I don't know how to use most of them at all... :D still learning and experimenting a few unfamiliar ones which seem to be useful to me?  :sweats:

Khaibit LOL ehm, Niol, don't you think it could be sensemaking for some reason to tell them at least that most of the stuff listed is this kind of Wiki stuff only a few people really understand while it confuses most people? I mean this could calm them a lot and prevent *close this window immediately again*. As this Wiki text shall become easy to understand even for beginners (as already beginners struggle with the TXMT it's not wrong to start ASAP with this topic) up to experts so keep in mind that as many as explanations are needed that people don't feel overwhelmed by this huge confusion but are able to go on - this is the "problem", do you see it now? :D :P

I think CC makers who know about the possibilities just have ideas to realise without thinking about how sophisticated this is/ have ideas and try to realise them/ whatever so yes, I agree, grouping in a way that offers the chance for insights will be perfect. Still didn't investigate your walls yet but now I'll even have to explore your point of view when doing so... *ggg*

niol Plesae really no worry about it... In my definition of average content makers are those who are unlikely to modify the game globally or add new game features including new materials into the game. There're some material types or parameters are basically for the game rendering that won't help objects or recolourings any better but will simply alter how the game is rendered overall, for example the VisualizeGeomNormalsDef. (A fruitful type of cases should be something like Gunmod's light mods) There're some that may have nothing to do with how objects or recolours display, such as ImposterArrowMaterial. Some may act more like helpers/co-ordinators/co-workers/co-effortors or primitives/precursors/activators to other material types, like the CausticsGeneratorMaterial which is to activate the caustic animations. There're some material types that are eventually turned out to be excessive coz some others can already do all of their jobs or their coding is dead, say the wallpaper and the FloorReflective.

That's why I said average content makers haven't necessarily to learn all of them, but just learn what they think they need. Surely, guidelines for the ways to go based on some experiences are hopefully always appreciated, especially when they're not misleading. So, U C what I mean? I wanna give out my opinions and/or experiences as neutral and objective as I can at the moment while the readers may still have to be as neutral and objective as they can be during their reading to maximise the efficiency of such communication coz any error or bias at any point of the process are LIKELY to cause following errors in the end of the process as a result. Having an error hasn't to be destructive though. I can be wrong after all :P , and hopefully I'll learn from that :D .

Yet, an orientation note may help. also, people can change to be over the average.

Khaibitwhy didn't you say this earlier? If you point it out in a little explanation like you did now everything should be fine and there is no reason to go on discussing because we do agree =) Yepp, an orientation note does make sense.

Pixelhate Just adding my two cents: about index : -If I'm a total noob with theoretical needs of understanding (I want to know), I'd like to have an hierarchical way Of looking to it (A.MaterialDefinition:A1.master parameter, A1a.sub-parameter, A1b.sus-sub parameter, 2.second important parameter, B.Floor, 1.master parameter,..).

-If I'm a noob with practical needs of understanding (I want to try), I'd like to find paramaters by results (transparency: ThisMaterialType + ThatMaterialType, glowing:...) or an index that leads me from the simpliest to the complex.

-Once I have some experience and understanding, It'd be nice to have a way to find things grouped by family(?)source.

-I imagine being an expert, it might be useful to have a general alphabetic order to find quickly some notes about that specific paramater. Pixelhate 05:08, 21 November 2006 (EST)

• doh!* 2 of 4 agreed perfectly *yippie!*, now the others enter the discussion... LOL
  Pixelhate, an alphabetical listing of the Material Types (parameters are next door ;)) should be clear/ enough because this will be the overview site only... I'd prefer a short addiction instead of mixing all up (alphabetical is easiest to find) like "Null - for shadows" or ["x" - submaterial of "y", - for "z"/ outdated/ stand alone] would be enough - if possible for the one or another Material Type hint while the alphabetical order isn't mixed up... we'll see and agree somehow =) Khaibit 06:10, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Wait, I thought we agreed to have both alphabetical list and the categorised list at the same time though they may be listed separately in 2 pages to avoid confusion. As for the hierarchial branching will exist in the categorised list... There may be cross-linkage between these 2 lists tho if in-page reference linkage is supported in wiki. niol 00:43, 23 November 2006 (EST)

LOL, yes, I meant this, was just too lazy to type - the point was just that I thought "it would be helpful to add these short quickinfos ("x" - submaterial of "y", - for "function z"/ outdated/ stand alone] to the alphabetical list to avoid confusions - so modders of every level should get along with the alphabetical list, too" to calm Pixelhate and to stop a new discussion about agreeing in the same points... *doh!* :D Do you want to tell me now that adding this quickinfo would be "wrong"? Khaibit 00:23, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Lol.. just everyway that works is fine with me. :) Add that in when useful... N I'll back that. niol 01:16, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Index of Material Types (in alphabetical order presently, or it may be changed)(should they be grouped according to their properties and functions and/or their sources?) Hint: search/find with the keystring: setDefinition ; These're the material types from the base game.

$mvMaterialDefinition (the material type variable for content viewer materials) Khaibit what about: Found in "cMaterialDefinition" in Content Khaibit 11:34, 22 November 2006 (EST)

AnimatedTexture

BirdWingFlapVertexShaderMaterial

BoundGeomMaterial

CausticsGeneratorMaterial

CensorCompositingMaterial

CubeAlphaFalloff

CubeAlphaFalloffTexture

DeckFoundationPreviewMaterial

DirtyRectCompositingPass

FishSwimVertexShaderMaterial

Floor

floorGridBlackActiveLevel

floorGridWhiteActiveLevel

floorLocalGridBlackActiveLevel

FloorPool

FloorReflective (dead)

ImposterArrowMaterial

InverseTileGridMaterial

LightningIonization

LightningGlow

LightningCore

LotSkirtRoadMaterialDefinition

MirrorBackClearStencilAndSetDepth

MVLab-RenderToTexture

MVLab-RenderToTextureReflection

MVLab-Dimmer

NeighborhoodCanvas

NeighborhoodCanvasStraddle

NeighborhoodTerrainEdge

NeighborhoodTreeGUOBMaterial

NeighborhoodWaterEdge

NeighborhoodWaterTerrain

NHoodRoadMaterialDef

NHoodTerrainHighlightMaterial

NHoodTerrainLighting

Null

OverlayMaterialDef

OverlayShadowMaterialDef

PartiallyUnderWaterMaterial

Phong [some predefined in stdmat shader]

PlumbBobAnimatedColor

PoolDepthLayerMaterial

PoolWaterSurfaceMaterial

ProjectiveShadowDef

RoofPreviewMaterialTopBoundary

SetFarZOnMirrorRTT

SetNearZOnMirrorRTT

SetStencilOnCensorRTT

SimpleMirrorReflection

SimSkin

SimStandardMaterial

SkyboxCompositionPassMaterial

SolidColorMaterial

StandardMaterial

StandardParticleModelMaterial

TerrainLighting

TerrainWater

TextureAlpha

TexturedMaterial

TileGridMaterial

uiHeadlineBillboardTest

uiHeadlineBillboardAnimationTest

VisColliderMaterial

VisDynamicallyDeformedMaterial

VisualizeGeomNormalsDef

WallMask

Wallpaper

WallpaperBump

WallpaperPool

WaterAnimatingTextures

WireframeMaterial

ZoomConeMaterial